Hickey, Denis Daniel "Din". Interview about living in Logy Bay-Middle Cove-Outer Cove

              Interview with Din Hickey
Martin: Okay, so today is Father's Day. Happy Father's Day.
Din: Laugh
June 2000
Martin: And it's June 18 in the year 2000 and I'm talking to Din Hickey from Outer Cove
and Din, in less than a month will be 91 (on July 15).
Din: How ya doin'?
Martin: It's my son's bilthday today too, 24 today. Anyway, ['m Martin Boland and
maybe
we can start offifyou give me your full name. Your full name is Denis Hickey, right?
Din: Denis Daniel Hickey
Martin: Denis Daniel
Din: Denis Daniel and I'm proud of it. That's what they called me - Denis Daniel.
Martin: Your parent's names?
Din: Davy and Margaret.
Martin: And Margaret, and her maiden name was
Din: Margaret Fennesey
Martin: Did you know your grandparents?
Din: Yes, but I know 'em. There were two or three, as you can see, were dead before I
was born see.
Martin: There was one of 'em you were telling me a story about the other day.
Din: The fellow who got drowned.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: Yeah, that was me mother's father.
Martin: What was his name?
Din: His name was Din Fenessey.
Martin: And what happened to him?
Din: That's how they called me Din, see. He was huntin ' seal s, the seal fishery, yeah .
This was up in June. He was out in February then and maybe it'd be June before they 'd
get back. They had no power, and no current, dependin' on the wind and tide ta get back.
And then maybe they'd have to sail a ll around the ocean to get into St. John's, or
wherever the wind and tide took 'em. So dey ran into a bad breeze offa Baccalieu. In
those days the wheelsman was at the wheel on deck, no covering. Now this is what I
heard. He was to da wheel, the Captain was down in da cabin, he had his compass dere
ya know, naturally. His compass was goin' mad, he said dere must be nobody to da
wheel. He shoved his head up through the scuttle; the wheelsman was gone. It was in
bad weather, see. And the wheelsman overboard. Now dat was Din Fenessey, my
mudder's father. My mudder was nine years old then.
Martin: Go way.
Din: So, they got her clear of Baccalieu anyhow and they had to put her off, she had no
canvas then, it was blew off her. So the coa l burning tugs in St. John 's, they had to come
out off of Cape Spear to tow 'em in. I heard me mother tell it a hundred and ten times.
She went out to town in the pony and jingle, ya know, a two-wheeled rig.
Martin: Oh yeah jingle, that was what, like an express, was it?
Din: No, it was only two wheels on that, there 's four on an express. This is more like a
boxcar.
Martin: Oh.
Din: Yeah, so there was no paper down here, no radio, all they had down here then was a
clock. To know if there was e 'er ship comin ' in, dey'd have ta go ta town up on Cabot
Tower, on Sign al Hill. Day'd be a ball on da spar, like a balloon, and if that ball was
hoisted on the spar, 'twas a ship comin' . They'd know it was a foreign er, a freighter, or a
sealer, or an injury.
Martin: Just by where da ball was.
Din: Go by da ball. The ball being hoi sted up, ' twill be a ship comin'. So he went down
ahead of me mudder, headin' down dere at the same time in the jingle wid her mudde r.
She was nine year old, my mudder was then and the ship was the Resolute. I mean with a
flag at hal f mast. Me mudder and me gra ndmudder went down to da warf, and men
getting on the gangway comi n' on the warf. My grandmudder said: "Anyone s ick
aboard?" "No". " Well what's the flag at hal f mast for?" "We lost a man last night."
"Who'd ya lose?" "We lost a wheelsman." "What's his name?" "Din Fenessey."
Martin: That's how she found out?
Din: That's how she found out. Now me mudder was 9 years old. His body was never
got because it was a mad raging sea. I was asking meself: "You'd think he would be tied
to the wheel or something."
Martin: And he was coming from the seal hunt?
Din: Out since February, ' til June, and his name was Din Fenessey.
Martin: Oh yeah, and with regards to your parents, how many children did they have?
Din: Mother, father, three sisters and ne'er son, only me, ya know. He had one s ister
married to Billy O' Donnell. You know Billy? Another one married to Jack Brien on the
Lower Road.
Martin: For yourse lf: you had a sister Mary?
Din: Yeah, Mary. And I had a brother older than any of us that died when he was real
young. His name was Dave. Mary was a lot older th an I was. Mary was 12 or 13 years
older than I was.
Martin: Ah, now, the questions are broke up into a bunch of sections. One is ca lled
lifestyles and deals with church, school, community and stuff li ke that. Do you
remember going to school?
Din: Yeah, I never went much.
Martin: Ya didn ' t, didn 't ya?
Din: No, I was one hard boy to get to go to school. I was brought there, but I always
used to escape. I got no education.
Martin: I remember my mom saying one time, I believe it was my mother, that she used
to laugh because she remembers hearing that your fath er brought you to school, and you
were home before he was.
Din: Oh yes, he hove me in the river down there.
Martin: What?
Din: He hove, well he didn ' t heave me in the river, but he was bringing me to school on
his back, and I made a wheel and knocked him in the ri ver along with meselfso I'd get
wet and have to go home. Me mudder wouldn 't let me go; I'd have to put on dry clothes,
see.
Martin: So you didn't like to be boxed up in school.
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Din: No, the smell was what used to make me sick. The first teacher I remember was
John Joseph Ryan. One Sunday when they were all in Church, one of the altar boys
knocked over the table with the water and wine on it. Fr. Dan criticized him in Church
by saying that they weren't taught very well. Ryan left and never returned. He was
replaced by M iss Barrett.
Martin: Where did they have the school to then?
Din: Right down by Jim Hickey's Lane.
Martin: What, on the other side of the lane?
Din: Yes, on the corner there, on the other side of the lane. The other school then was
out in Logy Bay.
Martin: That was where?
Din: Where Johnny Stokes old house was. It was along by Steve Carrigan's on the other
side of the road. That's where the old school was. At that time we had no Church here.
Martin: The Church was built in 1920, wasn't it?
Din: Yes the cornerstone was laid in 191 8. Now the crowd from Outer Cove and Middle
Cove would go to Torbay to Mass. Out in Logy Bay, they would go to St. 10hn's to
Mass. No cars. Horse and jingle, and horse and express. Which was like now, there was
a crowd went nowhere.
Martin: Would many people walk?
Din: Yes, ifsome people had no other way of getting there, they'd walk it.
Martin: That was a long walk.
Din: I went to Mass when I was pretty damn small with my mother and father in the
jingle and the old pony. And Martin, they'd have a bag of hay in the back of the jingle to
give to the pony while they 'd be in to Mass. They'd tie on the pony to the fence. Heave
out the bag of hay to him. He 'd be eating that whi le we'd be in to Mass. We'd come out
and go home. I'd have nothing to sit down on going home, only the empty bag. I had a
bag of hay going over - only the horse ate that.
Martin: So it wasn't too comfortab le then.
Din: No. Boy there was people around here, ya know, I won't mention no names, they
weren't very good. That was their big day for doing something, when all the people was
gone to Mass, see.
Martin: Oh, yeah. So the Church was built by the people down here?
Din: The Church was built by the people of the three places: Middle Cove, Outer Cove
and Logy Bay.
Martin: And the people down here built it themselves by free labour?
Din: Yeah, all free labour. ' Cause, well lookit here. I was up there standin' in the road
as a young fe ll a. Now old Rich Dallen over there, he had a nice lot of logs for the priest
in Torbay for to build their Church, and give them a lot of logs up there. And we were up
there and had a bunch of men. I was only a young fella. And Fr. Dan came up there with
the big hat and the big black overcoat. He says: "Nai l into a big stick. Good axe, huh. A
young fella like you, can you cut that down?" I went around it like a beaver, ya know. I
got her down anyway. Then the men there would haul that on a horse and long car and
bring it up to the mill that Martin Kelly was runnin '.
Martin: Martin Kelly. Where was that to?
Din: The mill was over where the big school is now.
Martin: Oh yeah.
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Din: Martin Kelly lived there - ya know where Kelly Park is? That was Martin Kelly's
land there. Martin Kelly was running the mill over there. And we had to put in a day a
week - the young men tending the mill, bringing in logs to him. Yeah. Taking out
sawdust and taking out slabs.
Martin: Now, did Mike Smart have anything to do with the sawmil l too?
Din: Yeah, well after that, Mike Smart. When Martin Kelly gave it up, Mike Smart took
it over. And Mike Smart bought it after.
Martin: Did he? Now that sawmill , Did Fr. Dan have that?
Din: That was a collection of the Parish got that.
Martin: So Martin Kelly, he cut all the logs?
Din: Martin Kelly, he was the supervisor.
Martin: Now, is he related to the Kelly's up here with the farm?
Din: He cou ld be but I wouldn't know. But I know he had neither brother.
Martin: Oh, he had neither brother.
Din: No, now Walt Rourke's wife (old Mick Rourke's father's wife) was his s ister. Mag
Rourke. Mag
Kell y. Yeah.
Martin: Now where did they get all the wood from? Did they get it all up there on the
hill?
Din: Everybody had woods. They donated so many logs to him, even the Protestants.
Yeah, the Cooks out there.
Martin: Oh, the Cooks out in Logy Bay.
Din: Yeah, in the White Hills, they donated wood.
Martin: So I guess there was lots of big trees around.
Din: There was lots of big logs then. All the place over in O'Donnell 's. You can see
here where all the birch trees is growin' up. Yeah, that was all cut down as bare as the
table. Now Richie O'Donnell had a priest in Torbay, a Father Ashley, was related. Rich
gave him a ll the logs he could take out of that to build the Church in Torbay. So the priest
in Torbay sent 3 or 4 or 5 men over here to cut the logs and haul them over. You sawed
it over in Torbay.
Martin: How did they bring it over?
Din: Horse and long cart. No such thing as a stakebody truck in them times, no siree.
Martin: Yes, and I guess it was an old rough road then too, wasn't it.
Din: Rough road everywhere. Now I can remember when you get to the golf course
coming home from town, that was the end of the paved road. From th ere down this way,
all through Middle Cove, al l through Torbay, potholes as deep as that table. Laugh. Iron
bands then too, ya know, on the wheels, yeah on the wheels. If I could think on it, ya
know, I knows a lot about that kind of stuff, yeah. Now about Fr. Dan. He was a great
man.
Martin: He was a big man too, wasn't he?
Din: He was a great man too, ifhe was in with ya. But he had a lot of sucks too, you
know what I mean?
Martin: Yeah.
Din: I heard the old man and them saying, ya know, I wasn't one of them, and neither
was the old man. But we had a few. "Oh yes Father, do thi s, and do that." Before he
was down here in this Pari sh at all, he was in Town, a priest up at the Cathedral. He used
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to be up on Kenna's Hill and the men going home from town after being out with a bit of
fish, ya know, a bit of dried fish. He'd stop em: "Have ya got any rum down there?"
They 'd have an oats bag tied under the ca r. A couple said: "Yes Father." "Take it out
and break it on that wall there." And there was some fellas did it.
Martin: Yeah?
Din: Yeah. But there was one old fella, William Power out there. He asked him. He
sa id: "Have you rum in that oats sack there?" "Yes Father, [have. Do you want a
drink?" "Nol Take it out and break it." "No, but you take orfthat collar, and [' II break
you. "
Martin: Who was that?
Din: Old William Power. That's Nixie Power's father.
Martin: Nixie married to Bride Boland.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: [heard someone say, [ think it was my mother, that when he was in Town, the
women used to like him but some of the men didn't, because he was against the booze all
the time. A lot of the crowd on a Friday afternoon, when they got their pay, they
probably went into a tavern for a few drinks. The women, [ think, would go after him,
and he'd go in and turn 'em out and send 'em home. So they weren't too happy about it.
Din: Yeah that's true, because what they used to do, when the pubs was on it, go in and
get your drink. He'd go in there of a Sunday morning: "Have a drink. Go to Mass first,
come back after and spend the day if you like." Any Catholics was there: "Go to Mass."
He didn't bother the Protestants. "Any Catholics was there, go to Mass. Come back here
and spend the day, 'til next Sunday if you like, but go to Mass first."
Martin: Yeah.
Din: Well he hove 'em all out. [remember meself, now, oh God. That reminds me.
Chafe down there, the old shoemaker. You mightn't know him, I know.
Martin: There was a Chafe here?
Din: He was a Chafe, a shoemaker. He was li ving down there, and my grandmother
gave him a building lot down there.
Martin: Was he from here?
Din: No. Down in Petty Harbour. But he was a cripple man, see. And a pretty good
shoemaker. He got all the work for Logy Bay, Middle Cove and Outer Cove. And a ll the
crowd would get together in the evening, go down for a cruise (croos) and a game of
cards, see. This was in May month. Fr. Dan would have the Rosary. He wouldn't have
it, but they'd have it up in the school and Jimmy Hickey or Dinny McCarthy or
somebody would have the Rosary, see. He'd come down and say: "Come on b'ys, come
up and have the Rosary". Fini sh that, and come back and have the game of cards after.
Here the batteries in the recorder went dead, and our session ended for the day. We got
together again on Sep. 27, 2000-with new batteries.
Martin: [fshe runs out today, [ got a spare set of batteries.
Din: What is that, run on batteries, is it?
Martin: Yes. This is September 27, 2000 and since that thing gave out on us the last
time, you had a birthday. I'm with Din Hickey and you had a birthday ...
Din: July 15
Martin: And you turned 9 1, wasn't it?
Din: Yeah
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Martin: So you're a year older since the last time we sat down.
Din: We'll have to go to July next year too.
Martin: Laugh. That shouldn't be any trouble. When we were talking the last time, we
covered a good bit of this. We talked about your family, the things that went on here, and
we talked about, the last thing we were talking about was Fr. Dan. Like, when he came
into the parish and stuff like that.
Din: Yeah. There was no dance all year. There was nothing here. Now the women, my
mother, Annie Cahill and a bunch of them would make hop beer and they would get
together and have a dance Wednesday nights over in the schoolhouse. They were making
money to help out the Parish. All hands would be there. A scattered fellow would get
halfdrunk. Sometimes 2 or 3 would get together on a nask. Serve a keg of beer, 5 cents
for a big pint, all you could lift up.
Martin: So we were just getting ready to talk about the fi shery. You know, what you
remember from the fi shery, say, years ago. And ah, there ya are, I can't read without
them (g lasses).
Din: Well look, I got 'em, and I can see just as well without 'em.
Martin: That's the way with mom, now. She had cataracts done, and whatever they did
with her eyes, she doesn't need glasses anymore.
Din: I had the same thing done. Everything was bleary to me, and kind of foggy-like. I
takes the test for the driver's licence - there's two or three tests, see. You don 't have to
take them because you are too young. Now the last time, you'd have something in your
hand, like a button, and you'd be looking at a yellow light in a big screen, like a
televi sion. Watch that yellow light and when the nashing lights comes on, push with
your thumb on this, see. See how many you miss. All they put on, I missed two.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: He said "That's pretty good." But they come so goddam quick, see. That's the
trouble.
Martin: Laugh.
Din: He said: "That's OK b'y." Now I don't need them at all. I can see just as good
without 'em. But he said they helps your eye. Because I have a blind eye, this 70 years.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: I got the sight knocked out of that in the woods, in the lumber woods. Because we
were cutting logs up to Snow's, went up one glittery morning, the trees all glitter, I hit the
tree with the axe and knocked the g litter off. I struck on a big knot with the axe, you
know, took me eye. I thought it was gone altogether. I never saw out of it after. I can
see daylight. But the other eye, thank God that's good.
Martin: Yeah. And so for the fishery, were you involved in the fishery? I know you
were, in later years, but I don 't know if you were early on.
Din: I put in 50 years at it, 55 years at it.
Martin: 55 years?
Din: Yeah that was before the Second World War.
Martin: And that was all fishing out of Outer Cove?
Din: Out of Outer Cove. Hand lining.
Martin: And what kind of boat did you fish out of?
Din: We had a motor boat, twenty-one foot long, with a 4 Acadia.
Martin: Oh yeah, and were there many people in the boat?
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Din: No, only meself and me father, that's all.
Martin: Yourself and your fath er.
Din: That's the way it was down there then, see.
Martin: You fished with your father.
Din: Yeah, Yeah. Then [ fi shed a few years after, meselfand Dan Kinsella, out there ya
know. While the war was on then, we got laid off. Then I had the rig. All we had to do
was get ready and go at it. We fi shed a couple a years together. I fi shed after that,
getting a few for the winter, ya know, a fter th at. But that was the way we had to live at
that time. Years ago, that's what you had to do for to li ve.
Martin: So would it depend on the time of year, the fi sh you'd be at?
Din: You wouldn 't start fi shin ' here until the capel in came. That'd be the latter part of
June, well maybe the 20'10 of June. The capelin, and th en you'd use trawls. Now then, the
trap men, they' d have their traps out. There were four traps there. But there then was 15
or 20 fellas handlinin'. That's handlinin ' and trawlin ', ya know.
Martin: That's the big long line with al l the sma ll lines and hooks going off it.
Din: That's maybe 200 or 300 fathoms of a stretch of a line.
Martin: How about jiggin '?
Din: We ll, you could jig away then. The way 'twas then b'y, you wouldn't get much
fi sh on the jigger and you wouldn 't get much fi sh in the bay on the trawl. ' Twas in the
night you'd get the few, see. Go out in the mornin ' now and the trawl would be full of
fi sh. Bait 'em then with fresh capelin and then you go out in the evening and you might
get 10 or 15. In the night they'd be eatin' , but in the day, once th e sun come up, not
much fi sh after that.
Martin: So you'd go out and get your fi sh and come on in.
Din: And it got so bad just before my time, the men used to g ive it up in the day and go
out in the night. No good going out in the day. They'd get not hin ' in the day.
Martin: So you just had a 2 1 foot boat wi th a 4 Acadia in her and you'd fi sh out oftha!.
Din: Fi sh out of that with just the two of us in her. Going ashore, we'd have her
anchored offsee. We' d have a go-ashore boat to go ashore.
Martin: Oh, tie her up at the moorings out there
Din: Yea h. And then come in with a flat, yeah. I built 21 fl ats.
Martin: Did ya?
Din: Yeah, and 3 dori es.
Martin: You were a carpenter, too?
Din: That's what [did when I knocked offfishin ' .
Martin: And you probably did a bit of it for buildin' boats and that.
Din: Yeah, and carts and anything at all to do with wood.
Martin: That's one thing [ remember my parents saying. They used to say about you that
you were a ' tidy' carpenter. Which meant you were a good carpenter, right.
Din: See, the way it was then, if you went on the job as a ca rpenter, whatever the boss
would tell you to do, if you weren 't able to do it, you wou ldn 't be long there. He 'd get
clear ofya, ya know. But I had lots of practice before ever the war started.
Martin: I didn't realize you spent all that time out fi shin ' . Did you have salmon nets out
too?
Din: Yes, four or five salmon nets in the spring of the year. And then when the salmon
wou ld be over, see, the capelin would be on the hand of com in ', see. You had your
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trawls all ready, then you'd bait 'em up. Well the first sign of cape lin you'd hear around
here, there wasn't many radios or televisions then, you'd have it in the paper that the
capelin struck in Holyrood. When they'd get in Holyrood, about two weeks after, we'd
get 'em down here. Everyone would be ready and rarin ' to go then, ya know. I was
fishin' when your grandfather was at it, Martin Boland and Larry.
Martin: Yeah, they used to fish together, the two of them, didn ' t they?
Din: Yeah, they had the stage on the far side of the beach, over by the river.
Martin: So now, when ye'd get your fish and bring 'em in, what would you do? Take
'em from one boat at the moorings and put 'em in the other?
Din: Yeah, you'd take 'em from the big boat, the one you'd be out in, and put 'em in the
flat, bring 'em in, barry 'em up, heave 'em up on the stage head, heave 'em up on the
splittin' table and one fella would gut 'em and head 'em, and the other fella'd split 'em
and then sa lt 'em in puncheons.
Martin: So you'd sa lt 'em right there on the beach .
Din: We'd sa lt them right there in the stage in puncheons. A puncheon now would hold
about 3 quinta ls. Salt 'em there in puncheons. Then they'd be in there for 10 or 15 days.
You'd take 'em out then and wash 'em out.
Martin: Would that be heavy sa lt you'd put on them?
Din: Yeah, crude sa lt, heavy salt, yeah. After 10 or 12 days, take 'em out and wash 'em
out and bring 'em up on the flakes.
Martin: Home in the yard?
Din: Now that picture you gave me, Hickey's flakes, now they had two big flakes down
to the beach. We had one here. Now the small men, we had flakes home.
Martin: Yeah, I remember Mr. Will Boland up there, when we were young fell as, we
used to help him on the flake. We used to make the fi sh and spread it out.
Din: Was always a racket 'cause you get it on the flake and get 3 or 4 wet days, rainy
days, then it'd get soggy.
Martin: That'd be no good then, would it?
Din: You'd get West Indies for it. That'd be a dollar and a half.
Martin: That was a grade of fish , was it?
Din: That was the lowest grade you could get. That was a dollar and a half for 112
pounds.
Martin: Wow, for a quintal.
Din: For a quintal, 112 pounds to a quintal of fish. That's what you'd get for it, a dollar
and a half.
Martin: Not very much, was it1
Din: But then see, Martin, everything else was charged accordingly.
Martin: Yeah, I suppose.
Din: Now the dollar and a half wou ldn't get you far now, would it?
Martin: Wouldn't even get you a bottle of beer now.
Din: No, Christ no.
Martin: You wouldn't se ll it by the pound then; I guess all the fi sh you 'd sell would be
salt, wouldn't it?
Din: Yeah, clear of what they used to call "out with the bum".
Mal1in: What?
Din: Out with the bum, ya know.
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Martin: [never heard of that, what's that?
Din: Ya didn ' t? Christ! [tell ya, yer mother heard of it.
Martin: Probably. What's that, goin' out se llin ' door to door?
Din: Yeah, maybe my wife or somebody e lse 's wife would go out with 2 horses, express,
25 or 30 fi sh in the back of it, back of the ex press. Knock to a door: "Do you want to buy
a fish, Ma'am?" "Yes how much?" " 10 cents."
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: Big wan (one) 20 cents. Ya had 20 fish, you'd knock to 80 doors. They couldn't
afford it b'y. Ten cents is not much, but it's a lot when ya got no money, isn ' t it?
Martin: Yeah. So what would you call that, "On the bum?"
Din: Bummin', bummin' fi sh. Whoever put that name on it?
Martin: "Twas anything but bummin ' because
Din: No, it was just that name they put on it, 'out with the bum ', 'out with the bum' .
Martin: God that's a new one.
Din: You just ask your mother about that.
Martin: I will.
Din: She'll remember it
Martin: Now when you bring the fish home here, like if you salt it down there, you'd put
it in the puncheon, you'd bring it home here, who'd look after the fish here then?
Din: You'd put it on the fl ake then, you'd bring it home. The next day, the man, the two
men was fi shin' , the wi fe would spread the fi sh.
Martin: The wife would do al l that?
Din: Yes, or your mother, or whoever would be able to.
Martin: Or the kids?
Din: Yeah. If they weren't out fi shin ', they'd do it. Get up on the fl ake, and they'd
spread it, maybe back up, when you'd bring it up. The next day, ifit's a fine day, they'd
spread it face up.
Martin: And when you'd stack it, you'd put it up in
Din: You'd put 3 or 4 pieces together for a day or two. Then you'd get another day out
of it and you 'd make a bigger bulk of it, see.
Martin: What did they cal l those piles?
Din: Faggots.
Martin: And then they 'd put a tarpaulin or something over it?
Din: Yes, put a tarpaulin over it. It 'd be dry then. And make a big round bulk of it, put a
tarpaulin on it.
Martin: That's right, they used to make it round, didn 't they? I remember that.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: And ah, would it be on ly the salmon and capelin and cod that the people down
here were after?
Din: That's all , yeah.
Martin: No other fi sh, like the lobster? They 'd probably throw them away.
Din: No such thing as the lobster. If they got them, they hove 'em away, didn ' t think
they were fit to eat.
Martin: Imagine, what. And a sq uid, did they go after them?
Din: Yeah, they'd get the squid then in August or September. We had to go to Torbay
for squid.
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Martin: ] remember one time] went out with Willy Houston, when he was alive, and
Dave, his son. They took me out for a run. They were fishing all the time and they took
me along for the ride. And they went out in Cuckhold's Cove. And we had a tub in the
middle. And we were catchin' the squid and dumpin' 'em in, and] was getting' squirted,
right, and it was a steady belt, and I was watch in ' the line alongside, and the next thing,
right in the side of the face ['d get squirted, right. And, by and by, I looked over and
there was Willy,just got the squid over the side of the boat, and he was holdin ' it up and
aimin' it at me. It would squirt at me and then he would throw it in the tub, and he was
killin' himself laughin'.
Din: A big glass of water or more, they'd have in them, then they'd let her go b'y, and
black with that.
Martin: They usually squirt when they break the water.
Din: And that's what carries them along in the water, see.
Martin: [s it?
Din: Yeah. Now they haul in whatever they have with this water, squirt it out, and then
they're gone. Haul it in and skirt it out again. They don't swim straight steady along, ya
know. When they get filled with this water, they gives the skirt and then they're gone
like a bullet. Then they got to fill up again. That's the way the squid handles it. ] put in
a lot on that.
Martin: Now you say there was about 20 boats that used to do handlining.
Din: Now there was fellas had no motor. There was fellas rowed, you know.
Martin: And some had the motor and there was, what you called big trap men.
Din: Yeah,4 trap men.
Martin: And who were they?
Din: Hickeys and Dorans, Martin Walsh and Jim Roach.
Martin: Martin Walsh and .lim Roach.
Din: That's the old blacksmith up there. And Martin Walsh, he's dead long ago. ]'11 tell
ya where he lived, up there where Jimmy Walsh lives now, on the Barrens Road.
Martin: Oh yeah, up there across from Harold Kelly.
Din: Yeah, Hickeys lived then down under the hill, down by the river. Big old house.
Now Barnes Rd used to be known as Tilt Path because the first settlers built their tilts
there. When I was putting in my septic system, [ dug into the foundations of two of
them.
Martin: Now [ was over to the wake last night over in Torbay, poor old Dan Roach.
Din: Yeah, Dan Roach, he was buried here this morning.
Martin: But Joe Roach (Dave's son) was over there and Paddy Hickey (Uncle Tommy's
Paddy) and they were talking about the liver house. Was it Roach's had a liver house
down there?
Din: Tommy Hickey. Tommy Hickey had a liver house down there, and a fella by the
name of Jim Ryan, he had another liver house down there. And before any of them,
Paddy Bulger had one down there. Do you know Paddy?
Martin: He'd be from Torbay, wouldn't he?
Din: No not that Paddy. He was a blacksmith. But this Paddy belonged to St. John 's.
Now he had a liver house right on the turn of the road there now. He hired on fell as then,
you know, 2 or 3 young fellas for the summer to help him out. And Dinny Coady from
Torbay had a liver house down here. Not all at the same time, you know, different years.
10
Martin: Why would they come over here, I wonder?
Din: No one here had e'er one see, so it was a good place to come. There was 15 or 20
boats fishin' out of here. Boy, they done pretty good.
Martin: r guess there was a fair bit of fish brought in here too.
Din: Yes there was always fish, on times.
Martin: I remember even when we were young fellas, and I guess that 's only small
compared to when you were young, but when they 'd get the capel in down here at the
beach, the big piles would be comin' right up, all up the beach and all up Slaters Hill and
they were huge big piles, right, of capel in.
Din: Yeah, boy they had farmers there on the White Hill s, Cooks and Nathan Barnes,
and them, they 'd have piles of capelin right up to Paddy Hickey's gate over there, up
along the drain, you know, for manure for the ground. But th ey'd be down there after the
capelin would go, the latter part of July, and you could go to that (your shin) with spawn
on the beach, capelin spawn.
Martin: Yeah
Din: Now there 's not very much down there these days. Now those times' Now the last
summer that I was fi shin' , me and Dan Kinsella made it up to go fi shin ', that's Nora's
brother, my wife's brother - she was the daughter of Pat Kinsella and Margaret Dyer.
Pat's brothers were Jim, Dave, John and Rich. Anyway we got 42 puncheons of fi sh in
the month of July; 42 puncheons in 30 days. And a puncheon of fish was 3 quintal s.
That was a fine lot of fi sh. Got capelin once on the beach. We had to go around then to
the holes, Robin Hood Bay and the north shore. That's the way we had to get the bait.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: The capelin camc in here one night, my God b'y, were they ever thick. Next day
there weren't no more than they'd be on the table there. The fish drove 'em in see.
When the fi sh slacked off, the capelin took off.
Martin: And like, for getting' the capel in, the only way they used to get them here was
with the cast net, right? They'd never go out and seine 'em or anything like that?
Din: Well Jim Roach up here used the se ine.
Martin: Did he?
Din: Yeah. But he'd get it for the ground, see.
Martin: So you 'd need a few men to do that, wouldn't ya?
Din: Well you'd need 4 men to haul the se ine. Well there'd be 2 in the dory and 2 on the
beach.
Martin: What about all the trap boats. How many would they have?
Din: They'd have six on them.
Martin: What about all the men. Where would they get them?
Din: Well , mostly northern men, ya know.
Martin: Northern men?
Din: From around the bays.
Martin: Oh, like from around Conception Bay and some of those places.
Din: What they mostly wanted was a good splitter, a good fell a to split fi sh, see.
Martin: Yeah .
Din: And there weren't too many of them around herc. But they'd get a good fell a from
around the bay, used to fishin ', a good splitter, see. They had 2 good splitters, a fella
washin' it , a fella guttin' it and a fella sa ltin ' it. The splitter, if you got one that was fast,
II
the way it was now, you'd be cuttin ' through it, I'd be headin ' it and th e splitter wou ld be
splittin ' it. And it would take all our time to keep him going.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: Now b'y there's some difference in the times now than they were then.
Martin: You know when they were fi shin' then, where would they do most of the fi shing
to, wouldn 't be here in the bay?
Din: Oh God, no. Out around the Pint, around the Ledge, Harvey, the two Harveys, the
Horn, Nor'ard Rock, Eagan's Rock, Squarrey, Guzzet's Neck. I knows all the grounds.
Martin: The only ones I ever heard of was Harvey and Tantum and the Middle Ledge, or
something.
Din: Yeah, Middle Ledge and the Rock.
Martin: The Rock?
Din: Yeah, the Rock was just out beyond the Point. You see it breakin ' when ' tis rough.
Martin: Oh yeah, that's the Rock. And the Middle Ledge is out further?
Din: And Tantum is out further again. That 's where Houstons fi shed, on Tantum.
Martin: Is it?
Din: Yeah, Willy Houston and his father, Willy Houston and Jim Boland, your
grandfather's brother, Martin Boland 's brother. Now that's where they used to fi sh - on
Tantum.
Martin: Now would that be Willy Houston, or his father Dave.
Din: Old Dave Houston. When Jim Boland gave it up, whatever he went at, 'twas old
Dave Houston and Dan, Willy's brother Dan, who's away, ya know. When Dan went
away, now Dan is gone a long time, Willy went with his father for a while. Then when
Dave got hardied up, Dave and Willy went together.
Martin: I wonder why they went out there, out that far?
Din: Well they were used to that ground, see.
Martin: Used to it, I suppose, ya. Was that deep, now, Tantum - that was the deepest of
them down, wasn't it? Harvey, wasn't that about 40 fathoms?
Din: Harvey? 38 fathom on the shoal of it.
Martin: 38 fathoms.
Din: On the top, really that's only like our Point, a point of land sticking up. That 's the
way it was. After you'd leave th at, you'd go to 40 fathom of water. Now Tantu11l was
the same, on ly Tantum was a little bit bigger a shoal.
Martin: Oh. Now you remember the markers for those when you were out there.
Din: Yes, God, I must say. They' re hard to find now, they 're grew up.
Martin: Yeah, there was one, I think Harvey was the one, I remember being out there
with Mr. Coady, Jim Coady, and Harvey - I think one marker was the Church in Torbay
and I can't tell ya the other one.
Din: Yes it was too, one part of it. The other part was Annie Malone 's house, down be
the beach. Tis gone out of it this yea rs. The other part of it, the southern part was the
Lab up in Logy Bay, well it wasn't the Lab th en, Danny Kavanagh's cook room.
Martin: Well he must have thought I was stunned or blind or something. I could never
find it. He'd say: "There it is, look!" Laugh
Din: You were lookin ' in the wrong way.
Martin: So the same thing would be with
12
Din: With all the grounds. Jim Heale's out by the Sugarloaf. That was a mark for the
outs ide Harvey. And a mark for the Horn . That was the southern mark. And Sculpin
Point over on the nor'ard shore, that was another mark for Squarry.
Martin: Where was Sculpin Point to?
Din: That was over on the nor'ard shore when ya comes out ofTorbay, on your left hand
side going out.
Martin: Oh yea h, is it out as far as the Beamer?
Din: Handy out, halfway out to the Beamer. And then the Middle Ledge, Ri chie
Stack's, we say, there was a bunch of wood over by Richie Stack's at that time, a bunch
of trees, that was the marker, but it is gone out of it now. The trees is gone but Middle
Ledge is still there.
Martin: That's out in the midd le of the bay, isn't it?
Din: No, Middle Ledge is off of the Point.
Martin : Out off the Poi nt, yeah.
Din: You see that breakin ' when it is right rough. That was nearly breakin' yesterday.
Martin: The other day they were sayin' , like there was no wind, but there was high
water.
Din: Yes, yea h.
Martin: [ wonder what caused that?
Din: Just said there a while ago on the radio, it come up to the top of th e wharf in Torbay
at Tapper's Cove. They think it was something out on the Grand Banks, one of those low
pressure systems, or something that drove the water in . You heard te ll of the tidal wave
in Burin, didn't ya.
Martin: Yeah, in 1929.
Din: Now that wasn't the wind done th at. No, it was an ea rthq uake under the ocean.
Yes si r, I remember that well. That was in 1927 or 1928. Me father was gone to town
with a load of dried fish. 'Twas in the Fall of the year. And the ground was frosty, ya
know and they had them old iron band wheels. You'd hear a horse and car coming from
here to Savage's Bridge. Laugh. Now me mother says: "[ think the chimney's afire,
Din". We had a two story house down there see and a ladder up to it. And I went up on
the roof and she had no fire in the stove. The house started to shake. There was no fire
in the stove. The dishes on the dresser started to shake. Didn't know what was wrong.
He came home and sa id: "We were in to Phil Malone's. That was in by King's Bridge.
We thought th ere was a heavy truck went up the hill , ya know. Made such a racket. Now
it came in the paper the next day, there was a tidal wave in Burin.
Martin : Lot of people kil led in that.
Din: Yes, there was people swept out to sea in it.
Martin: That's right.
Din: I seen a picture of that s ince. Now they seemed to say the bottom fell in, the bottom
of the ocean.
Martin: Oh yeah.
Din: It fell in in one place and rise the water in another place, see. Now this last one, we
had no high water here, but in Torbay, I heard 'em say today now it came to the top of the
wharf in Tapper's Cove.
13
Mal1in: There was a couple of other places around too found it the same way, I guess
whatever direction they're facin' or something. You had your own boat, you and your
father. What time did you go out in the morning?
Din: 5 o'clock.
Martin: That would be before daylight, wouldn ' t it?
Din: Just breakin' day then. See we couldn 't go before daylight because there was so
many buoys out, see, net buoys, or trap buoys. Hit them with the propellor, that was it,
you were finished. So you'd have to wait for the break of day so you could see a buoy 20
fathom ahead of you. Keep clear of it.
Martin: And you'd haul the trawls?
Din: You'd haul the trawls then . If there was fish there, we'd have 3 trawls. If there was
fish eatin', one trawl would do ya. You'd haul this trawl. 'Twas 100 fathom long, two
50 fathom lines. You'd haul this trawl and just as you 'd get to the end of it, it would be
fill ed up behind you again.
Martin: Go 'way
Din: Fish eatin', ya know. And more times you'd bait it and you wouldn't get one.
That's the way it was. There was days you'd do well.
Martin: So you say the trawl was how long?
Din: 100 fathom
Martin: 600 feet. And there was hooks in that.
Din: 18 inches apal1, baited with capelin. In the fall of the year now, when the capel in
would be gone, they'd bait it with sq uid. Cut up squ id see, not the whole squid, cut it up
injunks. They were counted the bad times, butjeez, they a re better than they are now.
Martin: Oh yeah. Now if that trawl had a fair amount offish on it, would that be much
in your boat? Say on one trawl, it wouldn 't fill your boat, would it?
Din: Well now, it was 5 quintals of fish the boat we had used to take, 5 quintals of fish.
Now that was nearly 2 puncheons offish - 3 quintals to a puncheon, and you'd have a
puncheon and a half or maybe three parts of another one, cause they 'd be split.
Martin: So if there was any amount of fish in the trawl, what would that be, a couple of
quintal s, maybe?
Din: Yeah, there was times you'd have enough aboard of her, you'd have to leave the
trawl full of fish.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: Go out in the evening, go out two trips a day.
Martin: Make a second trip?
Din: Oh yeah. Now ya had to load according to the weather.
Martin: Yeah, that's right, ifits loppy or anything like that you 'd
Din: Blowin', or a lop on, a haifa load. She'd bring 5 quintals, but 2 Y2 would be
enough if it was rough, see.
Martin: Now, say years ago, would you always have a ga lley in the back of the boat?
Din: Yeah, not in the capelin sku ll , but in the Fall of the year we would.
Martin: That's when you had the galley? So when the capelin skull was on the go, you'd
just load it up and come on in?
Din: You'd have your breakfast at home, or maybe something to eat, nothing more to
eat. And you'd go out and haul the trawl and never stop, come in and leave your fish at
the stage, come home and get your breakfast.
14
Martin: Go 'way. So you'd do all that before your breakfast?
Din: Yeah. Maybe a fella would have a mug up, or a drink of milk, or whatever, ya
know.
Din: But in the Fall of the year, once the trawl was took in, you'd be out handlinin ' ,
you'd be out all day, see. You had the galley then. You had the pot and galley. Cook
out.
Martin: Put a fish in
Din: Yeah.
Martin: Now did they have a tradition, I remember one time with Mr. Coady, I was out
there, and he cut the fish , but he'd never cut it right off.
Din: Oh no, you'd just cut in 3 squares.
Martin: Yeah, you'd cut into it, but not right through it.
Din: No, you wouldn't cut the back bone.
Martin: You wouldn't, would ya?
Din: No, no.
Martin: Was there a tradition or anything behind that?
Din: The most reason that was cut like that, was so you could cut it in the pot.
Martin: Yeah, oh yeah, that's right too, so it would all stay together.
Din: You take a good straight fish and you couldn't coil him in the small pot.
Martin: I remember him doing that, and he wouldn ' t cut it all the way through.
Din: No,just about three scallops down through it. Yeah, me and Houston fished
together a good while too, Willy.
Martin: Yeah, in later years, wasn't it?
Din: Yeah , oh yeah, Dave and Johnny.
Martin: Johnny? Willy's son Johnny?
Din: No Willy's brother. He went away then.
Martin : He went away to the States. He was a comical hand, I think, wasn't he?
Din: Well how many drinks used we have together? We used to splice. Maybe a month
before Christmas, I'd get a bottle for Christmas.
Martin: Go ' way.
Din: When you'd get a drink then, you'd enjoy it. Boy, it was some strong too,
compared to what's goin ' now. Johnny, b'y was a funny man.
Martin: I never did meet him, but I saw pictures of him.
Din: Sometimes Liz Boland would bring back a bottle to him and Johnny when they
would give her the money for it ($2.00). She would go to town on a horse and jingle and
she'd say that we'd have to meet her at the road because if she went down to the house
Will would get at it and they would lose out. Laugh. Now Dave is not dead yet, is he?
Martin: Dave, no. He's 86. Mom was up to see them this summer, Aunt Anne, because
he's married to Mom's sister Anne, right. She turned 87 last week, the 18'h of September
was her bilihday. Now, I think he fell down and hurt himself during the past year. But
he 's OK. He's still got his driver's licence.
Din: Annie, 'cause when we got married first , 1936, we were down in the old house, see,
'cause that's where we lived, and Dave and Annie were down to the house, they weren 't
married then. They were down one night, down to the house.
Martin: I think they got married after the War. Well, when he went to the States, he got
drafted and had to go in the Navy during the War. And then when he fini shed up the
15
War, they got married, [ think it was the end of December 1945. But, yeah, they're doing
pretty good sti ll, the two of them, right.
Din: Oh yeah. Did they have any family?
Martin: No, no children.
Din: A fine lookin ' woman, too, that Annie Hickey.
Martin: And she's still, ya know, smart and everything.
Din: She's your mother's first cousin, is it?
Martin: No, she's Mom's s ister.
Din: And she's my wife's first cousin.
Martin: That's right, yeah. Ah, so it was always two to a boat? You had your own stage,
you were showing me that.
Din: Own stage, yeah, and our own winch.
Martin: Your own winch right a longs ide of it for hau ling up the boat?
Din: For hauling up the boat, yeah. That was our own see. It wasn't a government
winch.
Martin: You'd haul it up how far? Right up alongside?
Din: Right up under the stagehead. That's with the fish in it, ya know. We'd be taking
the fish from the moorings in the smal l boat. Now the stagehead, that was actually at the
back of the stage. Yes, that was on the water.
Mal1in: Yes, I remember there was almost like a flake part of it sticking out there and
you'd throw it up there on that.
Din: That was the stage head. Then you'd heave it off that in on the splittin' table.
When you had too much for the splitt in ' table, you'd heave it on the floor in there, on the
longers, ya know.
Martin: Do you remember when the beach washed out?
Din: Oh yes b'y, yea h.
Martin: You don't know what year that was? That was in the 1950s, wasn't it? Around
1950, because [ can remember when all the stages were down there. I was only small.
Din: Yeah, but then the whole works washed out, sure. Road and all went.
Martin: That's right, they had a nice road going over there, the winch house.
Din: You could drive right over there to Houston's side, to Houston's stage, with a car
when the road was there, see.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: That sea come and took the works.
Martin: That must have been some storm.
Din: B'y, look here. Out on the moorings, 'twas blocked with wood, ya know, all the
longers, the frames, everything. One big wan come in b'y,and when it was going back, it
took the whole works.
Martin: Sucked it all out.
Din: 'Twas rough then for a long time. I don 't know how long ago that was, it was a
long time ago. Martin: Nothin' else you can think of on the fishery? What about
farmin '?
Din: Oh I don't know nothin' about that.
Martin: Did you do any farming? Did you ever have a garden in?
Din: Oh yeah , we'd have 4 or 5 barrels of potatoes sot, and some turnips.
Martin: Everybody would do that, wouldn't they?
16
Din: Everybody.
Martin: Have the potatoes in.
Din: And then you'd have a bit of hay for the horse or cow, or something like that, see.
But not, we say, fanning.
Martin: Yeah. Did ya have a barn?
Din: Oh yes.
Martin: Because you'd have a cow or something like that?
Din: Yeah.
Martin: I remember mom sayin ' that in our o ld house up there on the Rocky Hill s, they
used to keep a cow in the back of that, in the old linney they had built on the back, one
time, years ago, right.
Din: That's right, yeah. Oh yes, people would have a cow and a horse. Some would
have a couple of cows.
Martin: Ye never used to bother with the garden for sellin' vegetables, or anything like
that? So ye'd have what, ye'd have a cow?
Din: Sometimes we'd have a cow, but we always had a horse. Always had a horse. You
had a horse th en, you couldn't live without a horse.
Martin: You'd be down to the beach ..
Din: Yes, and you had to go and get your groceri es. Go to town with it, see.
Martin: What about hens?
Din: Oh Christ you 'd have hens, yes. For eggs.
Martin: Ever have a goat? Dad and them used to have a goat.
Din: Yes, th ere were lots of goats around. I got one for ya now about your grandfather.
When I was a young fella, probably a teenager, your grandfather and some of the older
men were working on the big bridge. And people used to put their goats down in the
Cobbler for the summer and bring them back in the Fa ll. This day I went down to get our
goat. After chasing after him all day, I got him and brought him out of the Cobbler.
When I got to the big bridge, your grandfather sai d: "You got your goat." I sa id: "Yes."
He sa id: "That goat haven't got a button in its ear, have it?" I looked and there was the
button, a brass button attached to the goat's ear with copper wire. The copper wouldn't
rust, see. If I had to know that, I would have killed the friggin' thing and left it up in the
woods. Laugh. Now your Grandfather Martin had a brother Will. He was call ed 'Big
Will' to di stingui sh him from the other Will Boland. Big Will was a big man, tall and
about 270 pounds. He'd go up in the woods on Red Cliffand he used to carry down great
big loads of wood on his back. People used to joke th at when he dropped his load of
wood on the ground, you could feel the ground shake a ll over the cove. Laugh. Speak ing
of big men, they used to say that the two biggest men ever in Outer Cove were Big Mike
Stack and Big Jim Hickey. Whi le I thonks of it, the other Will Boland that was there in
your time, he used to say that the only wind that bothered him on the Rocky Hills was an
easterly wind because it swooped down hard over the hill.
But talk about Fr. Da n, I was here aheada him.
Mal1in: Before him?
Din: I was here before Fr. Dan.
Martin: Oh yes, when did he come here?
Din: 191 8, J think it was. The cornerstone was laid in J 91 8.
Martin: He would have been here before that.
17
Din: He was here before that. He was livin' out to Ryall's on Ci rcular Road. That was
where he lived to.
Martin: Ryall's?
Din: Yeah. Sam Ryall 's. He 'd come down here to have Mass and maybe he'd be down
overnight. He'd be over to Davy Hickey's, old Paddy Hickey 's then, or he'd live out to
Paddy Malone's, or he'd live over to Tom Roche's in Middle Cove. He had 3 places,
that's where he had to stay down overnight, see.
Martin: Oh, yeah.
Din: Next day then ...
Martin: One crowd'd kick him out, he can go somewhere else.
Din: Yeah. Then the next day, he 'd ca ll someone with a horse, or a wagon, or a slide,
whatever the gear'd be for, ya know, to drive him out to Ryall 's. Boy, he got around
pretty good, and he built the place up with nothin'. Jesus, nothing. I was up to Rich
Dallen's woods ofa Good Friday, as a young fell a, and all the older men (than me) was
up there, and he was up there with the men cuttin' the logs ofa Good Friday. And the
words he sa id: "Every chop ya makes is for Jesus Christ". He says to me: Can you cut
that big log?" I was a young fella and I had a good axe and I was eager for doin' a bit of
work.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: They'd cut the logs then, the men, and they'd haul 'em down to the road, get the
horse and long cars and haul 'em to a mill over to Johnny Martin's in Torbay, and get
'em sawed. We had no mill over here th en, see.
Martin: I thought they used to have a mill up here.
Din: They used to have a mill up here, but ne 'er one at that time. The first man to run
the mill up here was Paddy Nugent.
Martin: Was it?
Din: Then when Paddy Nugent had a fallin' out with Fr. Dan, Martin Kelly took it over.
Then Martin Kelly got a bit too old for it and then Mike Smart took it over. That was the
end of it. Mike bought that saw and Mike started a mill of his own then.
Martin: Paddy Nugent, he started operating it first? That's the one who owned Nugent's
place up there? He was married to old Mrs Bridget Nugent?
Din: Yeah.
Martin: She was Bridget O'Brien, I believe?
Din: Yeah.
Martin: r remember her because she used to stay over to Boland's over there.
Din: That's right. A big woman, a great big woman. r was up there with me mudder and
she had me by the hand when Mike Smart plowed out the foundation where our Church is
to now, with the horse and plow.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: That was a big meadow belonging to Nugent's, and Mike Smart plowed it like a
garden. All the men was there with the picks and shovels, heavin ' out the clay and
diggin ' down to the gravel.
Martin: Go 'way. That's how they built it, brought it down to the gravel?
Din: Yeah. Now there was only one part of it down deep, where the boiler room was,
see. They put that down 7 or 8 feet in order to put the boiler down. The rest was only on
top of the ground.
18
Martin: You wouldn 't want to dig too far in the gravel anyway, because it was so bloody
hard.
Din: Well b' y , they dug down in the other place b' y. Then they called us when he was
in Town, to come down in the winter. Called us, two fellas, to go up and get the fire
going in the morning in the Church, ya know. He had that o ld furnace then, burnin'
wood into it, and the heaters, the waler heaters, ya had to boil the water, ya know, for the
water boilers. You 'd light the fire about 5 o'clock to get a bit of heat in the Church for II
o'clock that day. Again you got a ll that water boiled, ya know,just about the time
Mass'd be over, about II, I suppose it was only then getting warm in there.
M3Itin: Laugh, it'd be cold then, wouldn't it?
Din: Yes, a big empty Church, see, not done very good.
Martin: Well, there was no such thing as insulation then, was it?
Din: No, there was none of that in Newfoundland then, sure.
Martin: No that 's right. It must have been cold, like in some of the houses, like that.
Din: I went to work down at Fort Pepperal when the war stal1ed. I was workin ' in Town
before that, but the first piece of gyp roc come in there, the boss said: "Now b'ys, wash
your hands, I don't want no finger marks on that. Thought thaI was the way it was going
to be, ya know. And don 't put no hammer marks on it. The sparklers come in, the fellas
who was supposed to do the sparklin' , Americans. "Boys", he said, "ye on ly have that
half nailed up". He took the hammer and he drove the hammer in a half inch into it.
"Make a big dent into it so it wi ll hold the sparkling", he said. That's what they knew
about it around here. Gyproc.
Martin: It don't hold up though, like boards, just the same.
Din: Oh, no.
Martin: OK, so I was asking ya if you ever rowed in the Regatta.
Din: I was tell in' ya about the 9: 13. Watt Power used to say that Dan McCarthy was the
strongest and Din Croke was the toughest. He said Din Croke cou ld always give ten hard
ones as often as he was asked. Watt Power had steered Outer Cove in the past and had a
falling out with some of the crew. So he went to Torbay and told them he was picking a
crew to beat the Outer Cove crew. He did and they won. After that he went back to
Outer Cove and said he would pick a crew that would set a record on the pond. That's
when he picked the 9: 13 crew. When he picked the crew, he rejected his brother Jim and
his son John. He also turned down one of the Roches. He said he was good on the way
down the pond, but was a passenger on the way back . Watt Power was very competitive
and wanted only to win.
Martin: You were sayin' you rowed in 1931.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: And you won the Fi shermen's Race.
Din: And the Championship Race and the fastest time for the year. Here 's the medal we
got.
Martin: St. John's Newfoundland Regatta, 1931
Din: Yeah.
Martin: Looks like you got a few more medals there too.
Din: Yeah, I have about a dozen of them. They were garden party medals, ponds, and
lhat, ya know.
Martin: They look like Regatta medals.
19
Din: Could be wan (one). We rowed to Fr. Pippy's garden party out there. They used to
have a race there see, down on Quidi Vidi. Now I wasn't married at that time. I gave it
to me girl friend. She got her name on the back of it.
Martin: Oh, very good. Fancy engraving too, isn't it?
Din: Boy, I had a lot of garden party medals. And when the old house got burnt down
there, ya know, our old house.
Manin: Where was that, down by Dan Kinsella's, was it?
Din: There by Stack's turn, there by the turn. So I had a lot of them garden party
medals. We rowed on Octagon Pond, we rowed on Mundy Pond, Kent's Pond. We
rowed in a dory race down there in Flat rock, myself and Rich Kinsella. What we got th at
year, we got $50 shared up among seven men, that was the money.
Martin: Wasn 't bad though.
Din: It was very good then, at that time.
Martin: I dare say it was. And ah, they used to have a race out on Kent's Pond and
Octagon Pond?
Din: Yeah, whatever place they'd have a garden party in , see.
Martin: They used to have them on Mundy Pond, too, didn 't they?
Din: Yeah, I rowed on Mundy Pond.
Martin: Did ya?
Din: Yeah. That'd gather th e crowd, see. When there 'd be boat races, there'd be a lot
more people come to the garden party. That was the idea. Me and Rich Kinsella rowed
down in Flatrock at the Flatrock garden party in a dory race. We won the dory race. And
what was for the dory race was a medal and all the free Haig beer you could drink.
Laugh. Thcy had the Haig beer at that time, and a free supper.
Martin: G' wan, that's not bad.
Din: That was the pri ze.
Martin: Well it wou ld pass away the rest of the day for ya anyway. So th at was down in
Flatrock? So where would they have that, right in the bay?
Din: From the wharf out. There was two Maynards frol11 Flatrock rowed in it, and two
Sheas from Pouch Cove, and Hickey and Kinsella from Outer Cove. Me and Rich
Kinsella down there. We gave 'em a bit ofa skunkin ', about 25 lengths ahead of ' em.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: Trouble was, we were used to dories, see. Yeah, and all they had was fl ats. Little
short stroke. We wa lked right ahead of them for no trouble.
Martin: So, did you have to go out and turn around and come back?
Din: Yeah, you had to go out and turn a keg and come back.
Martin: [ guess it was a good pastime then too.
Din: Great, b'y. We were only young. You'd get your drive back and fOl1h. Fellas
would come and pick ya up.
Martin: What about at the old Regattas? You remember any of them? Like what did
they have for entertainment at the regattas that you remember? Like the greasy pig or the
greasy pole?
Din: No, I don 't remember th e greasy pole. All they had down there then, that r
remembers, is the danci ng ga ll ery and swing ing boats.
Martin: A dancing gall ery, what was that - a flat area for dancing?
Din: Yes, a whole crowd dancing. And the swinging boats.
20
Martin: What was the swinging boats?
Din: That was seats, like, hung out ofa chain. And a fella with a rope, and he'd haul ya.
Boy, you'd go up sometimes and your heart would go up in your mouth. Yeah, ten cents
to get in that.
Martin: Yeah, that was like a swing, was it?
Din: Yeah, same as a swing swong. Then they had the dancing gallery.
Martin: Where was the dancing gallery to?
Din: There, close to where the bandstand is now. That'd be the place where the fights
would start.
Martin: Around the dancing gallery, was it?
Din: And up by King's Bridge in the night, Cotter's Coffee Shop, coming from the
Races, all hands, well not all hands, a good many toughs or drunks, you know.
Martin: Feelin ' their drinks. So what'd usually set off the fight? Probably nothin ' at all.
Din: Nothin' at all, yeah. ['m better than yo u. You' re better than me.
Martin: I don ' t like the look of you.
Din: That was it. That's what used to staft it off. But those were the good old days, boy.
Martin: I dare say. Do you remember, like, you rowed say in that race with Rich
Kinsella, but do you remember who was in your crew in 1931 when you won the
Championship?
Din: Yeah . Then, no, Ri ch Kinse lla didn 't row then. I tell ya the reason why. Rich
Kinsella practiced with us and we had her all stra ightened up, 'bout ready to go. Three
days before the Races, Jim Kinse lla died, Rich 's father. Ri ch got out of the boat. And
who got in his place was Dave Roach up there, Mary Anne's Dave. Dan Roac h's brother
- Dan Roach was buried today. He got in with us. There was Mike Power, Willy and
Johnny Houston, Jim Roach was killed over in the Battery, and me and Dave Roach.
Martin: And who was the stroke?
Din: Mike Power.
Martin: What Mike is that?
Din: That was Steve's brother. I was number 5, Mike was number 6, Johnny Houston
was on the bow.
Martin : Yeah. You got any other memories from the Regattas?
Din: No, not now, [ don't th ink so.
Martin: Ah, would they have a dance then, in the night?
Din: They'd have a dance then in some of the Ha lls in the night, see.
Maltin: Around town?
Din: Yeah, around town, maybe over in Torbay.
Martin: What was at King's Bridge that would bring them all together? Was that just
because it was c lose to the pond?
Din: Well that was the way they had to come up see. They'd go up that way. Well.
They didn 't have to go up there. They could go up Lakeview Ave if they wanted to, but
the whole crowd went up.
Martin: Now did you ever hear of that spa they had out there in Logy Bay?
Din: Yes, sure did.
Martin: Did you ever see it?
Din: Yes.
Martin: That's down somewhere, where the Marine Lab is?
21
Din: There where you go down to the Lab. You go down the road and turn toward the
Lab, where they had the winch house.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: Well that's all built in now.
Martin: Is it?
Din: Yeah
Martin: You wouldn 't find that there now?
Din: No. They built that road see and they filled it in. And you know something about
that.
Mal1in: That's not up where that pond is to, is it?
Din: No that's a man-made pond, that is. Yeah, they just barred the water.
Martin: Yeah , that's right, there used to be a marsh there, wasn't it?
Din: Yeah, you go down that road, down towards the Lab, ya know Dyer's Cove where
they used to fi sh one time.
Martin: Off to the lell there?
Din: Yeah, well that's where the spa was to, there. When they built that road and
widened it, they fill ed in the spa.
Martin: They did?
Din: Yeah, they filled her in .
Mm1in: Somebody was sayin ' you could go down and still see that, but ya can't?
Din: You can see where ' twas at, but there's no water there now.
Martin: Nothin ' there now.
Din: And a queer thing about that spa, that was no good to boil, no good to steep tea on.
Martin : Wasn't it?
Din: Pat Kinse lla out in Logy Bay, big Pat he was called. When we come in from
fi shin ' , we cooked up. Pat sa id: "Fi ll the kett le with water. I went over and filled it out
of the spa. Boy, ' twas the grandest kind of clear water, ya know. Pat sa id: "b'y, where
did ya get that?" I sa id: "At the spa." Pat said: "That's no good. Ya can boil it, but tea
won't steep in it."
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: That's funny, a in 't it. He said fill it out of the river. So I hove it out and we filled
it out of the ri ver. Tea won't steep on th at, he sai d. You wouldn't think th at, would ya.
Martin: Now there was supposed to be a lot of minerals in it, but th at wou ldn't hurt you
at a ll, you wouldn't think.
Din: No. That was as cold, b'y, as ice.
Martin: I remember mOIll saying that, because they used to go out there picking berries.
Din: Yeah that 's right.
Martin: And they'd walk all the way out there, and they 'd often get a drink froIll it.
Right cold.
Din: Yeah, ' twas really cold.
Martin: And that used to rise up to what, about a foot?
Din: Yeah th at's right.
Martin: A good bit off the ground, according to her anyway.
Din: Boy they really fooled that up. Built a road now over that.
Martin: Ah, did they say there was a cure out of that?
Din: Now I never heard tell of that.
22
Martin: Oh. Now that's about it in terms of the questions they had. I don't know if
there's any other stories or anything that comes to mind. What about, like Christmas
time, did they go around?
Din: They'd go around then dressed in the mummers, the fools, ya know.
Mal1in: Yeah. What would they have on their heads?
Din: Boy, they'd have everything they could get ahold to - old hats and old masks or
sheets.
Martin: Curtains?
Din: Everything they could get, yeah.
Martin: What would they do?
Din: Knock to the door. There'd be maybe 25 behind ya. The house would fill up with
people.
Martin: And would they try and guess who you were?
Din: Yeah, that was their big trouble trying to find out who they were, see.
Martin: Would they get you to dance then?
Din: Oh yes, they 'd say then: "Now b'y strip and I' ll get ye a drink of wine, or a drink of
syrup, or something. There was some fellas was foolish enough to take off, ya know.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: Oh, we know who ya are now.
Martin: Laugh. You know that mummers song they have on TV at Christmas time, I
suppose it was something like that?
Din: Oh yes, it was made up off of that. Boy, 'twas queer auld things happenin'.
Is that thing turned on now')
Martin: Yes b'y, its still goin'. Why have you got a story?
Din: I was goin' to tell ya another wan but
Martin: Yes b'y go right ahead.
Din: When Fr. Dan come, before Fr. Dan come here, ya know, the schoolhouse was
there by Jim Hickey's Lane, Power's Lane. They had an outdoor toilet, ' twas bui lt up on
shores, ya know. In school you had to put up your hand to go out, see, and you'd go out
and go in there, and you'd get up on the roost, and there was a wooden box lined with tin.
And after a week or two that'd be filled up, ya know, and the teacher'd say: "Go down to
the beach and get a couple of bar tubs and bring that shit and piss down to the beach."
Now ya know what a bartub is, don't ya. There was four of us, four to the bartub. Me
and Will Brien got one one time, that's Will Brien of the Rocky Hill s. He's dead long
ago now. We were goin' down, four fellas and two bartubs, and they runnin' , ya know.
And I was behind on the handles and Will Brien was ahead. He tripped, jeez, the whole
thing went over him.
Martin: Laugh.
Din: I tell ya what we had to do, bring him down to the river and wash him off. Take off
his clothes, wash 'em and wring 'em. And the teacher sa id: "What kept ye so long?"
Will Brien fell in the river. That's what we sa id. Now that would give ya an idea about
public health then, what.
Martin: Yeah.
Din: Then after that, that didn't work, dig a hole in back of the school and bury it.
Mal1in: But they 'd get ye to do all that?
Din: Yeah, get ya because ya was goin' to school.
23
Martin: Yeah. Now that Will Brien, who was he?
Din: That was Paddy Brien's, lived there on the Rocky Hills, there across from John
Hickey's; Maurice Brien's place.
Martin: Oh, down on the bottom of Fox's Hill.
Din: Bottom of Fox's Hill; Will and Paddy and Jim and Mike. Maurice and Maggie
were their parents.
Martin: They were the ones that lost, there was four of them, I think, lost in the war.
Din: That's right, yeah.
Martin: Maggie, she was the one that was the most bereaved, remember when they used
to have in the Fall of the year, the Armistice Day thing. She was for a number of years
the most bereaved mother, because, I think, she lost four sons.
Din: That was Davy Hickey's sister, now. And Mickey's sister, and Jimmy's, and
Martin's and Tommy's. Yeah, she had the most lost in the war, didn't she.
Martin: That's right. She had one, I think was with the American navy and there might
have been a couple with the Merchant Marine, but there was four altogether.
Din: Now Davy was lost in Halifax between the boat and the wharf.
Martin: Who was that.
Din: Davy Brien.
Martin: Was that another one in that family.
Din: Yeah, me and him was to the ice, the first year I was married, in the Beothic, Davy
Brien.
Martin: How many years were you out to the ice.
Din: Nine.
Martin: Go 'way. How did you find that out there?
Din: Now it was a pretty dirty spot, I'm tellin' ya now. I tell ya, the way 'twas out there:
"ifl gets in, I'll never go again." The next spring come, you'll be mad to go again. That
kind ofa way, ya know.
Martin: Did they have any traditions, going out to the ice, like if you were going out for
the first time?
Din: No. You take your pan and go up to the galley. You'd put on your parka to go, you
wouldn't have a parka then , no you can't jump, you go up on deck and line up to get your
breakfast, dri ftin' snow and freezin'.
Martin: Go 'way.
Din: But that was them times. 'Twas different since. In those little boats it was
different. Now when I was in the Beothic, the second last spring I was out to the ice, she
was a big boat, she had a mess hall in her, a big long table as long as the house here, 25
or 30 men sit down to that. Now that was great comfort. But in the Neptune and Eagle
and them: take your pan, put on your coat, haul down your hood, and go up and line up.
By the time you'd get your breakfast, the pan would be full of snow.
Martin: Go on. What would you have for breakfast?
Din: You'd have mostly beans. Yeah, and that'd be breakfast. If you were out for seals
then, you wouldn't get nothin' else until, well you'd have a bit oflunch you'd bring with
ya on the ice, ya know.
Martin: What would you take?
24
Din: You'd take what you had. Well, they'd give ya some bisc uits and a bit of cheese.
That'd come from the company. But every fella handy had some sweet bread or some
cake to go out with 'em, see.
Martin: That's what [ remember them sayin ', that they'd have a piece of hard tack or
something like that.
Din: Oh yeah, they'd have lots of hard tack, yea h.
Martin: And would they take rai sins or currants or something like that in their pockets?
Din: Yeah, yeah.
Martin: That'd have to do ya all day out there, wouldn't it?
Din: Well you could always have a bite out there when you'd get really hungry. But you
might be out there now, maybe from 5 o'clock in the morning ' til dark in the evening.
Then just before it got dark, you'd try to get aboard, see.
Martin: Did many people fall through the ice?
Din: Not many. [never heard of anyone getting' drowned out there, not in that way.
Martin: I used to look at it, you know, that boat, I think you talked about it the last time,
the one that blew up, they had that explosion.
Din: Oh, the Viking.
Martin: Yeah. Now they made a film from that, they showed the guys, they had their
movie cameras with them and they showed 'em all going out in a single line, going out
on the ice, and you could see the old ice wavin' up and down like that, right. I was sayin '
to myself, Lord God [ wouldn't want it to be me. Laugh. I'd be scared to death.
Din: I was on the Neptune that Spring. We were in there where she blew up. She blew
up in there in the Horse Is lands. That was the only bit of ice was on the front of the
country that year. 'Twas kind of a mild Winter, see. Now we went out in the Neptune.
We were a week ahead of her. She was a week behind, the Viking. There were a lot of
movie men out that year, they were makin' a movie, see. And there were 5 or 6 of them
in the Viking. Now, we had two with us.
Martin: Oh, you did too, did ye?
Din: Yes we had two. Every ship went out had two. She had a big gang with her. Old
Friz Allen and the dog, you might have heard of that. He went out on the Viking. Well ,
he was lost and so was the dog. We were up in the Straits, in the Gulf, because there was
no ice in on the Front, see when we got the message there was a tragedy in the Horse
Is lands. We got her out and got in there. And when we got in, Chri st, they were all gone
ashore, the fellas who could go ashore. The Imogene picked up a lot of dead bodies and
he said now some of the crowd picked up a sca lp. There was hair on it, they said it was a
man's head. He gave it to the Master Watch; he brought it aboard. The Doctor said it
was part ofa man's head. He said it was a scalp with the hair on it. But there were 35 or
40 killed in that.
Mallin: Yeah, what caused the explosion, [ wonder.
Din: B'y, I heard a fella say the next year out, on the Neptune the next Spring, he said:
"B'y, that happened some si mple. That boat was full of ammunition aft, you see, all
powder boxes, full of powder. They brought it out, I suppose to make the movie, those
big fellas, and they were packin' it up aft. And IVan box was leakin ' a little string of
powder on the floor. And wan fella sa id to the other: "Sweep up that." "Naw put a
match to that and" poof and he put a match to it and that was all he knew. "But I come
out of it" that fell a sa id, "I come out of it pretty good, but I was blew out on the ice". He
25
said that 's what caused it. Now the crowd forward wasn't Illllied. Blew the stern off of
her.
Martin: Yeah. Would they have that ammunition, that powder, for if she got stuck in the
ice?
Din: Yeah that was for blastin ' . Every ship had so much of it, but this one had an extra
lot. Because with so many movie men in her, they wanted to make a big thing of it.
Martin: Yeah, th at's right, too.
Din: Mike Kinsella was in her, too, and Jim Coady.
Martin: Were they?
Din: Yeah, and old Nix Roach in Middle Cove, Peter Roach's father. And Peter was
with us in the Neptune. Nix Roach, then, the old man, come here.
Martin: Now Dad was out on the Imogene.
Din: Yes
Martin: And I think he was out on the Beothic. He didn 't like it out there, I thin k.
Din: No, th ere's no one likes it out there.
Martin: No.
Din: Mike Kinse lla went up to the galley that night to get a kettle of water. He knew
nothin ' till he was blew out on the ice. She blew up and anyone that was handy aft blew
out on the ice. Well Mike never got a scratch out of it. Now the crowd was forward
never got a scratch. All those right aft now was killed.
Martin: Ah down here, were there ever any tragedies, people lost at ice, or at sea, or
whatever, in your time?
Din: No, not down here, no.
Martin : The on ly ones now I can remember was Stephen Power and Tom Doran, that
time.
Din: And Jack Coady, Jim Coady's brother, but that was along time ago now. But that
was no one or anything done that. He just fell overboard, see.
Martin: Yeah. I think I said I was going to get you something. I got a couple of things
brought down to give ya.
Din: Have ya?
Martin: Remember you were talki ng about your grandfather, he was on the Resol ute.
And when you were talking about it, you said they had balls up on the signal , right.
Din: Yeah, he was drowned out there, see, he was washed overboard .
Martin: Now this here is something that was written up in 18 12; it's hard to make out,
that's the way they used to write. But they had the flags and you were talking abo ut the
signals. Here it is: if the boat is going into Torbay, number 9 - there's the signal they
put up - one ball and two flags ; and if it was going into Outer Cove, that's number ten ­two
balls and two flags.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: They had signals for these sentries, they had them up on a flagstaff, that's where
they had this thing. And when they set it up th ere, ifbuddy saw a boat going in to Outer
Cove, they'd get him to put up two balls and two flags.
Din: Yeah.
Martin : And then the crowd, whoever was lookin ', would know that, right.
Din: Yeah, that's the way I heard 'em say it. They wouldn't know anything about it un til
they go to town, and then it 'd be up on the hill. Cabot Tower, ya know.
26
Martin: Now that there is a letter they had when they were settin ' that up. This was in
1812 and he talks about Red Head station. So Red Cliffwas always called Red Head,
wasn't it. I think it must be up on Flagstaff. Houston's place (up on Red Cliff) was
Flagstaff.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: So OK, in 1812 they said: Durnford who was an engineer, [ think, said
concerning the signal post on Red Head, he said that the signal post on Red Head had
fallen into decay. So it had been there in the 1700s and had been left unattended. So he
sa id they'l l agree to bu ild it up and have a new one there. Like that was during the war of
1812 with the Americans. So when ya mentioned the balls, [ said /'11 show ya that,
because that's the way they used to look. I don't know if you ever saw them, but
Din: No never there on the hill. These were before my time.
Martin: Now these were signals they used to use at night. This was by day when you
could see it, and by night, these were lanterns.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: And that first one, number one, is three - that 's if there was an enemy coming
and three together was an enemy northward, and these three going that way, was an
enemy southward.
Din: That was their signal then, eh.
Martin: Yeah, if they were out at night, there'd be three lanterns. They 'd stack 'em up
that way. That's one thing I'm going to give ya. Another one you were talking about, I
don't know if that's the one about Coady or not. These are copies out of old newspapers.
Did I give ya them before?
Din: No, [ don't think so.
Martin: This is back in 1909, that 's the year you were born, wasn't it?
Din: Yeah.
Martin: They made a mistake in this paper. They gave the names of the three who were
drowned. They give their names there but they had 'em wrong. And there was another
paper out that corrected it. They said the three who drowned were James Coady, Martin
Roach and Daniel Cahill. Those rescued were James and David Roach.
Din: Yeah that's right.
Martin: So that 's one for ya to read. That's out of the Evening Telegram, July 2, 1909.
Din: That Jim Coady, he wasn't belonged to here.
Martin: Wasn't he?
Din: No, I don't think he was belonged to here.
Martin: Well he may have been hired on for the Summer. Oh yeah, now like Mr. Jim
Coady up on the hill, that would be nothin' to him, was it?
Din: No that was nothin' to him, no. That Coady now could be belonged to St. John's,
ya know. Now there was an old family of Coady's here years ago. Could be one of
them, you know. Now [ wouldn ' t know. He may be hired on. His ship was in, see.
Daniel Cahill now, that was Martin Cahill's father.
Martin: Yeah, now this one here is July 6, 1909. This is where they find the bodies and
brought 'em in.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: That' ll give ya something to read sometime. And this is one, [ think it was when
Mickey Brien got married; a fella Hedderson fired off the gun.
27
Din: I heard of that, yeah. "Twas a fella got shot, Edi son was it.
Martin: Now in the paper they said it was James Haze ltine. But it wasn't that, it was
James Hedderson. He was from Brigus originally. Now I found about it from Willy
Croke, but I also saw it elsewhere that it was Hedderson. Anyway, this is what he was
doing, firing off the gun.
Din: Yeah, well he put two loads in the gun; thought the first one went, see. That 's the
way I heard it. Now they were firing them muzzleloaders at the time see, not the 12
guage.
Martin: That's right, and you'd forget what you'd put in.
Din: All hands was firing, see. The gun mustn ' t have made much ofa kick see, because
ifshe fired, he'd really know that, wouldn't he. They said he put another load in on top
of the one that was already in. Thought the first one was gone. That's all she wrote.
Martin: Yeah. He was only a fairly young man too. Now here's another one, and this
one, I was asking you one time if you were related to Patrick who used to have the big
fish operation down there. This one, this is a will, and it is done in 1853, David Hickey.
Now that was the first David Hickey that was down here, right. He's the guy that got
married in 1832. Now he talks about his will and he says: Making provision for his four
children, being minors (they were all young). There was James, that was his oldest,
David, Catherine and Patrick. Patrick was the youngest; he was born in 1848. Now I am
not sure for certain how you are tied in to them, but I was assuming that this David (the
son of the first David) would probably be your grandfather. I think he was born about
1841. I'm not sure of that. Anyway you might find it interesting. Now he had other
children, but they musta died, right.
Din: There was a lot of wills back then. You know there was 3 Davy Hickeys. There
Davy, the son of Patrick Hickey and Maria Bolger, and my father Davy 'Law', the son of
David Hickey and Mary Barron, and there was Davy Derm. Davy Derm was born at sea
on a boat called the SS Dermot. Ya know, when I was a young fella, me and Din
Fennesy were down by the river where Bridget Hickey (Davy Derm's mother) kept 6
ducks. We brought some bread and threw it at the ducks. When they came out to get it,
we
threw rocks at them and killed 4 of them. When she found about it, she got mad and
went to our parents and told them what happened. She said: "Those two little
pepperholes killed my ducks." Laugh.
Martin: Yeah, anyway that's enough to bother you with.
Din: Oh that's alright b'y. We put in a fine time.
Martin: I certainly appreciate your taking the time to talk to me and give me the
information. What I'm going to do with that, I'm going to get that typed. 'Twill
probably be next summer when they get a student on at the Museum, they'll type it up.
But before they ever put a copy in the Museum, I'll get a copy typed up and give it to you
to have a look at and make sure you agree with what's in there. And if there 's a story
you told or whatever that you don't want in, then you tell me and I'll make sure it gets
taken out. Or if there's anything you want changed in it, you tell me and I'll do that.
Din: No, I don 't want nothin' taken out, don't want nothin' changed.
Martin: Laugh.
Din: No trouble to get along with tonight.
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Martin: I tell you what, you're 91 years old, and you don 't look it, and you don't sound
it.
Din: I'm like an old car. I'm alright outside, I'm not so good inside.
Martin: Laugh. Well that's all. I was talking to a priest in town, Dick McHugh is his
name, he's stationed out in Kelligrews. I was askin ' him how he is and how he is making
out, he's an older fella now. He said: "I'm alright as long as I've got lots of medication."
Laugh.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: I guess he got a few things wrong with him and he gotta take pills for one thing
or another, right. I suppose that's the way with everybody.
Din: I takes six pills a day.
Martin: Oh yeah.
Din: I was talking to a stranger, I don't know who the man was and he said: " Is Dave
Whelan alive yet?" I said I never heard tell of him. I said: "It wouldn't be Jack
Whelan?" He said: "No Dave Whelan, I knows him well." He said he worked up to the
Airport with us. I said: "That was Dave Roach." I said: "You should see his cheque a
Friday evening. It wouldn't be Dave Whelan that would be on it, it would be Dave
Roach. "God", he said, "all we ever called him was Dave Whelan." Now that's how he
got that name, see.
Martin: So that Dave Whelan was the one that was married to Mary Ann Doran?
Din: That's right, yeah.
Martin: But his real name is Dave Roach. It's just that he happened to grow up with . ..
Din: Well , John Whelan reared him, see.
Martin: Now his own family was still there too, it's just that they had a big family.
That's what it was?
Din: Now Martin Roach had a big family, yes, but John and Kitty down there had no
one, had a ne 'er child. That's the reason they took Dave with 'em, ya know.
Martin: So Martin Roach was Dave 'Whelan' Roach's father.
Din: Yeah. There was Dave and Dan and Rich. And there's Agnes and Helen and
Annie. Annie's away about 70 years. They never got no account of her. They don 't
know where she's to. Even when Dave died up there, they couldn't get no account of
Annie. She could be dead, see.
Martin: So what were the other Dave Roches? There was one out in Logy Bay.
Din: Yes and up here, Jim the blacksmith 's son, Dave. Little Dave, he lived there in
Savage's Lane. Married to Nell Houlihan from Flatrock.
Martin: Out by Savage's Bridge?
Din: No, above that; there where it runs across. Know where Joe Roach lives?
Martin: Oh, that Dave. He was a taxi driver.
Din: One time, yeah.
Martin: Now, that was Joe's father, right?
Din: Yeah, that's right. And then there was Dave ' Whelan ' and Paddy John's Dave,
Paddy Roach's son in Logy Bay was Dave.
Martin: Oh, further out in Logy Bay, was it?
Din: Yes, down by the Bully Bridge, that's where he lives.
Martin: Oh. Over in Logy Bay itself.
Din: Over by the Jacksons.
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Martin: Over there. Mary Frances Roach was there on the corner.
Din: Yeah, that's right. I built a house for her.
Martin: Mary Frances was married to a Roach.
Din: Yeah, Jim. He was old Paddy Roach's son too. I built a house for Dave - Dave up
north that time, ya know. That 's just Dave and he's dead long ago now. Old Mary got
the two legs off - Jim's wife.
Martin: Did you build many houses?
Din: I built five or six b'y. I built three up here in our place there-Denis', and Dan
Doran's and Dick Doran 's and what's his name's there, McDonald' s.
Martin: It wasn't all prefab like it is now.
Din: No, you had a lot of elbow grease to use then. They comes down in packages now.
Martin: I was looking at our old house up there and I noticed the beam upstairs in the
cei ling, and the beam was maybe 2"x8", but you go over about halfway and it starts to
taper and they cut a long wedge off. And what they cut off at the end, they put in the
center. And that put a little bit of a s lope on it, right.
Din: Yeah. Yes, that's the way they were all done, b'y. That put the pitch on her.
Martin: Yeah, and the little piece in the center was only about that (3 inches) thick and
that's what was cut off the end.
Din: Yeah, that's right. There was no waste then, were they.
Martin: No, indeed they weren't.
Din: That's the way our old house was too, ya know. To make the pitch, what they cut
off to finish off the eave, they put that strip on top. All the houses had no big pitch on it
see. That's the way they were done like that, see.
Martin: So there wasn 't much of a s lope on it.
Din: No. There was a fella around here the other day lookin' for an old house, they were
going to make a movie. You didn 't see him around, did yary
Martin: No.
Din: He was up to Pat Carroll 's twice and he was up to Denis' . He wanted an old house
where there was nobody livin ' in it. He wanted to make a picture, see.
Maltin: Oh Yeah
Din: I suppose he wanted to gut it out inside and do it whatever way they wanted. A real
old house he wanted; take one that was condemned, no one living in it.
Martin: McDonald's might be one.
Din: Is that up there yet?
Martin: That's still there. I don't know what it's like inside.
Din: Oh he didn't care what ' twas like, so it was an old house.
There 's two what I built, see that motor boat up there. There's a dory.
Martin: Go on.
Din: Dory, there it is, look. A lobster pot.
Martin: Lobster pot and all. All ya need is the lobster.
Din: Yeah.
Martin: Well anyway, I'm goi ng to go now.
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